About a month ago, in late January, I posted about how Utah wanted to designate a state gun. That bill has now passed the Utah senate and has gone on to the governor of Utah to sign. Seeming to have run out of peaceful things to have as symbols of their state, they decided to have a gun represent them, the Browning M1911 .45 semi-automatic handgun, designed by John Moses Browning. Why? Because, they argued, Browning was a "favorite son" of Utah, and because that model of handgun is a famous and innovative designed used to protect freedom in the hands of our military throughout the years.
Of course, they completely brush aside the great damage it has done to our society in the wrong hands. It is awash with the blood of countless innocent victims.
Now Arizona wants a gun to represent their state, too. Namely, the Colt Single Action Army Revolver.
I'm not really surprised. Arizona is the state with the most lax gun laws, and one of the most deadly states for shootings. One might expect that the most permissive state would want to justify its viewpoint by vaunting a weapon as a symbol of their people.
Never mind that one of the most traumatic shootings this country has endured in recent years has was only about a month ago in that state. I'm talking, of course, about the shooting of Representative Giffords and 18 others in Tucson, six of whom died, including a little girl.
Unlike Browning being a "favorite son" of Utah, Arizona can't even make that tenuous justification. Samuel Colt was from Connecticut, never touched foot in Arizona, and died one year before Arizona even became a U.S. territory by that name. But even that won't stop the Arizona legislature.
According to the article:
Colt lobbyist Todd Rathner says the bill is fitting to honor the state's founders. Rathner said the Colt Single-action Army revolver played a major role in protecting the mines and settlements during the late 19th century.
"Arizona was founded by rugged individuals who took care of themselves and did so largely with a Colt Single Action Army Revolver on their hip," said Rathner, who is pushing the firearm bill which would make Arizona one of the first two states to recognize an official gun.
Never mind that the Wild West that Rathner's image conjures is only a myth.
And, of course, "protecting the mines and settlements" is code for "fighting Mexicans during the Mexican-American War and conquering the land from native Americans during the Indian Wars." No parallel there to the discriminatory bills passed against the Latino population in the name of anti-illegal immigration. But I digress.
Again, this is just a blatant attempt to glorify a culture of guns run amuck in this country, and an attempt to justify pro-gun policies that are making Arizona a poster state for violence. This pro-gun state legislature is so crazed in their extremism that they even turn a blind eye to their own constituents. According to a CBS poll, 58% of Arizona citizens are for tougher gun regulation ( 77% of whom own guns in their home), a value that is even higher than the country as a whole (47%).
If you live in Arizona and have grown tired of the gun-related violence in your state and our country, I urge you to contact your lawmakers, demand a stop to this ridiculous "state gun" bill, and advocate for common sense regulation of guns in your state.
UPDATE: A good article out today regarding common sense needed for Arizona gun laws:
http://azstarnet.com/news/opinion/editorial/article_eaf7324e-df42-5dcd-bd31-89ebcefb37b3.html
UPDATE: A good article out today regarding common sense needed for Arizona gun laws:
http://azstarnet.com/news/opinion/editorial/article_eaf7324e-df42-5dcd-bd31-89ebcefb37b3.html
Arizona is awash in gun violence because the current administration is too worried about the Hispanic vote to close the borders. Not only will they not enforce immigration policy they won't let the state do it either. The left should be outraged that Obama puts getting reelected above the lives of Arizonia's citizens.
ReplyDeleteYou think I'm exaggerating? Phoenix, Arizona has a higher kidnapping rate than ANYWHERE in the world except Mexico City.
Ponder that. You have a higher chance of being kidnapped in Phoenix than Mogadishu or Baghdad.
That is outrageous and it has absolutely nothing to do with permissive gun laws.
You really, truly, want to see gun violence go down in Arizona, then you need to fix the human and drug trafficking going directly there from Mexico.
Until you do, all you will succeed in doing is disarming the law abiding.
18Echo, your kidnapping stat seems made-up to me. Do you have a credible source for that statement or did you just invent it?
ReplyDeleteAnd are you suggesting that Arizona's gun violence rate is somehow tied to illegal immigrants? Again, it sounds like an exaggeration you have made up, and discriminatory to boot, just like Arizona's policies. Source, please, or I delete your comment.
"18Echo, your kidnapping stat seems made-up to me. Do you have a credible source for that statement or did you just invent it?"
ReplyDeletehttp://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6848672&page=1
Okay, Pyro, it's true that kidnappings are occurring in Phoenix, and that they may be tied to Mexican drug cartels, but that still doesn't suggest they are higher "than anywhere in the world except Mexico City." or has any comparison to Mogadishu or Baghdad. 18Echo's sentiment still sounds like exaggeration and fearmongering.
ReplyDeleteIf Arizona really wishes to do something about the deadly shootings in their state, they need to enforce background checks on all gun sales, keep records of gun sales, prevent bulk sale of guns without special permits, and better enforce the few gun regulations already in place, in addition to better funding for law enforcement. By doing these things, they can better reduce gun violence, including by illegal aliens and those tied to Mexican drugs.
The "than anywhere in the world except Mexico City" probably is an exaggeration, but the Arizona kidnapping rate is unusually high. I'm having trouble finding kidnapping rates for Mexico City in recent years, but back in 2003-2004 it seems to be in the mid 300s.
ReplyDeletePolitifact covers it a bit here -
http://politifact.com/texas/statements/2010/jun/18/david-dewhurst/dewhurst-says-phoenix-has-more-kidnappings-any-oth/
While I don't think Arizona's kidnapping is quite as bad as the media made it seem, it's awful close to Mexico City as far as I can tell, which is pretty bad when they've practically got a full blown war going on now.
As far as bulk sales though, I wonder what else gun dealers are supposed to do when the ATF encourages them to sell anyway.
"Sources tell CBS News several gun shops wanted to stop the questionable sales, but ATF encouraged them to continue."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/23/eveningnews/main20035609.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea
I'm not saying there has never been an unscrupulous dealer, but it's pretty damning when the ATF just lets this happen. I think they should clean house before we start blaming gun shops.
The John Browning M1911 .45 semi-automatic handgun played an important role in America's military history, being the pistol issued to America's military in WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. It thus helped to preserve America's many freedoms for our people.
ReplyDeleteIt is the only handgun in the world that has been in continuous production for the past 100 years, and is now made by numerous handgun manufacturers. No other handgun in history can match its amazing record.
The Colt Model 1873 Single Action Army Revolver played an important role in Arizona history. It was both the official US military handgun, as well as the most popular consumer handgun of the later part of the 19th century, back when Arizona was being settled.
One needs to realize that Arizona was a very dangerous wilderness back then, with little law and order. Many wars were fought with the native Americans, so it was a very violent time. The Apache wars went on as late as 1889, before they were eventually subdued. All white people living in Arizona back then needed to own guns to protect against Indian attacks.
Even after the Indian wars ended, the state was still not developed, with little government. So it was most important for people to own guns for their own personal protection. Arizona was so backward that it finally did not become a state until 1912, 53 years after Oregon had already obtained statehood.
So a Colt Model 1873 is indeed a good handgun to pick for Arizona's state gun.
For the state of Oregon, I would recommend that our state handgun be the Colt Model 1851 Navy Revolver. My Great-great-great-grandfather carried one with him when he traveled west on the Oregon Trail in 1853. He volunteered to help protect his wagon train against Indian deprivations, and managed to kill 3 Wild Indians in one skirmish to protect their horses from being stolen.
Since this revolver was the leading handgun at the time of our state being founded, all of Oregon should honor the Colt Model 1851 Navy Revolver for its important role in our state history when Oregon was still a wilderness.
It is important that all Americans realize the important role that handguns have played in America's history.
I don't know why people are so freaked out about this. I mean really, who cares? Do you know what your state mineral is? How about your state fossil? I didn't even know my state had a state fossil until 30 seconds ago. Apparently my state also has a state soil. Who knew?
ReplyDeleteSince you are opposed to states being represented by weapons, I assume you also will be making posts advocating that Utah, Delaware, Massachusetts, New York, and North Dakota all immediately change their state flags?
Last I checked, no one died because Delaware's flag has a rifle on it and New York's flag has a sword on it.
Anonymous, I don't deny those guns are amazing examples of deadly weapons and workmanship. I don't deny they are important historically. I don't deny that they may have been important in battles in those states.
ReplyDeleteBut those qualities do not reflect the values of those states. Having been born in and lived in Arizona in my childhood, I can relate a little to those values. Part of my family lives in Utah. And I live in Oregon. But don't think for a moment that I and most others in these states are comfortable having a deadly weapon reflect our values. Those lethal weapons your revere so much may have been used to conquer territories, fight wars, and even for self defense, but they are also responsible for countless (and likely many more) deaths of innocents.
PyroTek, I agree that, if that's true, the ATF likely was wrong in allowing a sale to continue. Sadly, the program run by the ATF to stem the illegal gun trade to Mexico is being cut substantially in the next budget.
ReplyDeleteHeather, it is true that the flag of Delaware has a rifle, and the flag of New York has a sword. I'm not happy about that, and it certainly wouldn't be my first choice.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I am somewhat comforted by the fact that Delaware's rifle is held by a Revolutionary War soldier, is a model of rifle not used anywhere for a very long time, and is used only as a prop for the soldier as a symbol of history. The difference with Utah and Arizona's state symbol idea is that the focus on the Delaware flag isn't on the gun, it's on the soldier.
New York's flag has a sword, but it is held in the hand of Blindfolded Justice. Like the scales held by Justice, the sword is a prop for the figure and the figure's meaning, not the focus of the flag.
And, unlike you, I consider the symbols of a state to be important. That is why it takes a bill in the state legislature to approve it. Those symbols are meant to represent the values of the state and its people, even if it's a type of soil or a cooking pot.
"Sadly, the program run by the ATF to stem the illegal gun trade to Mexico is being cut substantially in the next budget."
ReplyDeleteI think they've done quite enough damage lol. According to one of the informants, ATF lost track of about 2500 of those rifles that were sold to arms traffickers. This scandal is huge, and the more skeptical among us even believe they facilitated these sales to pad their own numbers and make the problem look more severe to secure more funding.
Plus, the dealers that voluntarily worked with the ATF risk negative attention from the media when and if it becomes public which stores these guns were sold from. Heck, if I were one of those gun dealers I wouldn't be doing the ATF any more favors, since now people would be pointing the finger at me for making the sales, even when it was with ATF's insistance they went through.
"However, I am somewhat comforted by the fact that Delaware's rifle is held by a Revolutionary War soldier, is a model of rifle not used anywhere for a very long time"
ReplyDeleteThis is quite incorrect. These types of firearms are used all the time, among Reenactors, Cowboy Action Shooting sports, and blackpowder hunters.
Additionally, I don't see how you can call the soldier holding a musket a symbol of history and ignore the historical significance of the Colt.
The point I was making about state symbols was not that they aren't important, but that most people have no idea what their state symbols are. I think your statement about symbols meant to represent the values of that state is very important - if the people of this state decide that they ant a gun to represent them, who are you to gainsay their wants? If it's your own state, your opinion is relevant. But it's not your state.
Why are states spending time and money designating *products* as state symbols? Animals? Sure. Flowers? Why not? Ever heard of the Texas Yellow Rose? Soils? Yes--Illinois has a great sense of pride in its great soil which feeds a nation.
ReplyDeleteThese gestures, by and large, are the product of school children working with legislators. What grade school is behind the gun symbol for the states?
Guns? A product? A deadly product?
If you want to tout products then how about the state refrigerator? (Does Iowa still have Amana?)
Or Detroit for cars? Coke for Georgia?
Why not? Because it's a stupid waste of time and tax payers money.
Unless, of course, it strokes the needy belly of the gun lobby and the militias.
Give me a break, people are getting upset at Themis-Iustitia in the New York State flag? It is indeed "Lady Justice" in an image that dates back to Classical times.
ReplyDelete@ Heather: Is AZ your state, then? If not, why do you have an opinion? Our opinions matter, even if we don't live there, because their legislative actions set a precedence, and this precedence would be unhealthy.
ReplyDeleteAnd, no, I don't feel the fetish of a handful of reenactors justifies a state symbol.
Is this model of gun historically significant? Some, but not as much as the people who wielded it. Aren't you folks the ones to quote the bumpersticker slogan that guns don't matter, it's the people who wield them? This bill only glorifies the gun, not the wielders. If they wish to celebrate those who used it, they can specify a holiday or some other tribute to their people, not a weapon meant to deal death.
Good point, Euminides. I can't think of any other state symbol that calls out a specific product brand name.
ReplyDelete"@ Heather: Is AZ your state, then? If not, why do you have an opinion? "
ReplyDeleteI don't, the people of Arizona can do whatever they want. I just have an opinion on you freaking out over this.
"Never mind that the Wild West that Rathner's image conjures is only a myth."
ReplyDeleteA myth that conveniently becomes reality when gun-controller/banners want to argue against open and concealed carry.
"I can't think of any other state symbol that calls out a specific product brand name."
ReplyDeleteNebraska State Soft Drink - Kool-Aid
Kansas State Toy - Etch-a-Sketch
Pennsylvania State Toy - Slinky
I guess I stand corrected, Aztec. How long did it take you to research that, I wonder? At least none of them are designed to be deadly. (is Kool-Aid really a "soft drink"?)
ReplyDeleteHey wasn't kool-aid used a a murder?
ReplyDeleteSeems I remember hearing about 'drinking the kool-aid' at the Jonestown massacre.
Baldr -- are you going to protest Kool-aid now?
While many people today tend to think of soft drink as soda, it's really just the opposite of a hard drink - that is, non-alcoholic.
ReplyDeleteThe point is, you're upset with a state representing themselves with a deadly weapon. But when pointed out that some states already have deadly weapons - from guns to arrows to swords, representing themselves in some way (which has caused no blood in the streets), you try to justify your irrational hatred of guns through other means.
Heather, my "hatred of guns" is based on the hard fact of their deadly nature and the ease with which they get into the wrong hands. This is not irrational, but realistic.
ReplyDeleteI would prefer that weapons of any sort not be used as symbols of our nation or our people. There's little I can do about those other ones, though they are used as props for other symbols, as I have already pointed out. The bills to make a "state gun" glorify the gun more than any symbol, and not as props for a greater message.
@Baldr, you wrote:
ReplyDelete"If Arizona really wishes to do something about the deadly shootings in their state, they need to enforce background checks on all gun sales, keep records of gun sales, prevent bulk sale of guns without special permits, and better enforce the few gun regulations already in place, in addition to better funding for law enforcement. By doing these things, they can better reduce gun violence, "
The statement is inaccurate, as there is no evidence that ANY of those has significantly or consistently reduced any form of firearm-related violence anywhere else it's been tried.
Except better funding of law enforcement. When you put more cops on the streets, ALL forms of violent crime are reduced (and not co-incidentally, abuses of people's rights goes up). For examples, see New York City and Washington DC - they saw major drops in their violent crime rates when they put more cops on the street and arrested more people:
http://www.nber.org/digest/jan03/w9061.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/nypd-police-officer-admits-to-arrest-quotas.html
Washington DC keeps trying to infringe on people's rights for "public safety."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/04/AR2008060402205.html
http://flexyourrights.org/no_warrant_no_search
It comes down to a simple question: Would you rather live free, or in a police state where your rights are at much higher risk of being infringed upon by police?
...Orygunner...
For once we're in agreement on something, Orygunner, in our assertion that more cops and better funding for police = lower crime rates.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I don't mind having my liberties reduced a bit more in the name of security, such as by increased background checks and and record keeping. Obviously we differ there.
We also differ in that you routinely refuse to believe the statistics I have put forth regarding those other solutions I mentioned, but the data is out there, in peer-reviewed publications. I've listed them in other posts.
The statistics/studies you have posted are narrow in scope (not considering enough factors) and also are only a "snapshot" in time, not showing any actual CHANGE as a result of gun control, only a loose and inconsistent correlation between gun laws, gun ownership rates, and firearm-related crime.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that I don't believe the statistics, because numbers don't lie. It's that they don't actually prove anything significant, and there's far too much data to the contrary of what they claim to prove.
...Orygunner...
" Heather, my "hatred of guns" is based on the hard fact of their deadly nature and the ease with which they get into the wrong hands. This is not irrational, but realistic. "
ReplyDeleteThat is irrational as you don't treat other deadly objects in the same manner.
@Anonymous, well, whenever there's a proven way to actually keep them out of the "wrong hands," let me know.
ReplyDeleteUntil then the best way is to keep those "wrong hands" behind bars, because as long as they're free to walk the street, dangerous people are ALWAYS able to get guns, anywhere in the world.
...Orygunner...