tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post4766300158621342369..comments2023-11-27T23:16:46.222-08:00Comments on New Trajectory: President Obama, Take A Stand Against Gun Violence!Baldr Odinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11818934498607763309noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-56387755784739250612011-01-29T19:34:55.525-08:002011-01-29T19:34:55.525-08:00I didn't say it was realistic ... but it would...I didn't say it was realistic ... but it would be a hell of a lot more effective in saving lives, on many levels.Guavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568182455048577926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-12724378079798906502011-01-29T12:29:21.431-08:002011-01-29T12:29:21.431-08:00Good luck getting drugs legalized, Guav, other tha...Good luck getting drugs legalized, Guav, other than maybe medical marijuana.Baldr Odinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11818934498607763309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-45783651455286020922011-01-28T05:51:31.065-08:002011-01-28T05:51:31.065-08:00Don't forget the slaughter at the Branch David...Don't forget the slaughter at the Branch Davidian ranch in Waco, TX and the Weaver family at Ruby Ridge. <br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge<br /><br />Those are just the biggest high-profile cases.<br />There's more:<br />http://www.atfabuse.com/enter.html<br /><br /><br />I am amazed that someone can know what these armed tax collectors have done and not only believe they should continue, but want them to have MORE money.<br /><br />...Orygunner...Orygunnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829265216321634830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-19988609098371320772011-01-27T19:27:27.542-08:002011-01-27T19:27:27.542-08:00The 17% represents 5,114 weapons, to be exact. The...The 17% represents 5,114 weapons, to be exact. The majority of firearms recovered at Mexican crime scenes come from China, Russia, Israel, Spain, Korea, Guatemala and the Mexican Army itself, not the US.<br /><br />You really want to slash the homicide rate both here and in Mexico? Put your time and energy toward legalizing drugs, not restricting firearms :)Guavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568182455048577926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-8372678567488317692011-01-27T18:53:26.037-08:002011-01-27T18:53:26.037-08:00Baldr, I'm glad that you qualified that by adm...Baldr, I'm glad that you qualified that by admitting that the number is only for guns traced and doesn't include those clearly made outside the US. You are forgetting though, that the US government does sell guns to other countries. So, just because a traced gun has a US origin, doesn't mean it came to Mexico directly from the US, further diluting that number.<br /><br />This is not the problem people make it out to be.Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07799421256296958940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-34626981654690201382011-01-27T18:18:16.537-08:002011-01-27T18:18:16.537-08:00That's probably because you've never heard...That's probably because you've never heard of them throwing an innocent man in jail for doing the right thing, yet still unknowingly selling to an illegal alien, while the illegal alien and strawman purchaser walks free:<br />http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/09/texas-gun-dealer-gets-prison-sentence-selling-gun-illegal-immigrant-id-illegal/<br /><br />Or maybe the case of a guy loaning his legal AR-15 to a friend, who experienced a mechanical malfunction resulting in a multiple discharge, and who was then imprisoned for illegally transferring a "machine gun":<br />http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=68590<br /><br />Just a couple of examples I know about off the top of my head, but they don't exactly inspire any confidence in the BATF. I (and many other law abiding gun owners worried about their Gestapo tactics) won't shed any tears if their funding gets reduced, they never get a director, and they eventually go the way of the dinosaurs. They don't do anything the FBI couldn't do better and more professionally anyway.Colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04410036643192254380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-7256993728749088922011-01-27T17:36:56.552-08:002011-01-27T17:36:56.552-08:00@Baldr, (for some reasons my notifications have st...@Baldr, (for some reasons my notifications have stopped when these threads are updated)<br /><br />Yes, that's 17% of the overall number. The ones not submitted for tracing were obviously not of US Origin.<br /><br />I also haven't seen any mention of what percentage of guns seized were related to drug cartel activity, and how many were seized in other investigated crimes. I have heard that many Mexican citizens violate gun laws and try to keep firearms for self-defense, and that many Mexican nationals that go home to visit carry US-purchased handguns with them when they go back.<br /><br />The Cartels are using fully automatic firearms, why would they want semi-autos when they can get the real assault rifles?<br /><br />And how, again, is this OUR problem? If the Mexican government wants guns from the US to stop entering their country, THEY should tighten THEIR border. I don't see anyone here blaming Mexico for our drug smuggling problem or for the illegal aliens that come from their country.<br /><br />...Orygunner...Orygunnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829265216321634830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-7810573115875902852011-01-27T17:10:59.407-08:002011-01-27T17:10:59.407-08:00Orygunner, the flow of weapons to Mexico IS our pr...Orygunner, the flow of weapons to Mexico IS our problem. 90% of guns that have been successfully traced came from the U.S. These guns are used to arm the drug cartels fighting Mexican law enforcement and military in Mexico. Obviously, this aids the drug cartels in continuing to process and sell drugs to the U.S. <br /><br />It's true that this percentage is for guns that are successfully traced, and does not include weapons that are clearly made outside of the U.S. such as fully-automatic rifles or grenades, for instance. I had heard 17% were U.S. sourced. But that 17% accounts for many thousands of weapons, and that's only those that have been traced -- likely many more have not either been submitted for tracing and have not been captured.<br /><br />Tightening borders is a good thing, but must be done in addition to other measures.<br /><br />Clearly I have more faith in the ATF to safeguard our interests and welfare.Baldr Odinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11818934498607763309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-89666154869444707632011-01-27T05:16:25.632-08:002011-01-27T05:16:25.632-08:00@Baldr: The flow of weapons to Mexico is frankly, ...@Baldr: The flow of weapons to Mexico is frankly, not our problem and not our responsibility. <br /><br />Their BIGGER problem is the flow of weapons from ELSEWHERE because that is where they are getting the fully automatic assault rifles and grenades, which are extremely difficult to buy legally in the US so they get them from other sources in other countries. There may be some semi-automatic rifles and other guns making their way across the border, but it's a very small percentage of guns that are being seized (IIRC, around 13%?).<br /><br />Perhaps if Mexico didn't want all those guns smuggled in, they should tighten their borders.<br /><br />And I would like to see those armed tax collectors (The ATF) shut down completely. They do no good for our society and have screwed up far too many people's lives.<br /><br />...Orygunner...Orygunnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829265216321634830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-83400055419266026062011-01-26T21:17:03.618-08:002011-01-26T21:17:03.618-08:00Thanks, Guav. I'll need to check out that pub...Thanks, Guav. I'll need to check out that publication.Baldr Odinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11818934498607763309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-30540358872086196732011-01-26T21:16:36.858-08:002011-01-26T21:16:36.858-08:00Zorroy, if I'm reading this right, you're ...Zorroy, if I'm reading this right, you're celebrating the fact that the ATF is getting less money to prevent illegal gunrunning of weapons to the drug cartels in Mexico? And you guys question MY priorities!Baldr Odinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11818934498607763309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-29351622652280426652011-01-26T19:55:01.390-08:002011-01-26T19:55:01.390-08:00Anonymous: Technically speaking, Loughner did not ...<b>Anonymous</b>: Technically speaking, Loughner did not acquire his weapon legally. He had to have lied on the ATF form 4473 where it asks "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?" Answering "yes" automatically disqualifies you from purchasing the firearm, and we know that Loughner was described as a “pothead” and was rejected by the US Army because of his admitted marijuana addiction. So he had to have lied on the form, and in the process committed a federal felony.Guavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568182455048577926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-4758762009141230762011-01-26T19:46:04.644-08:002011-01-26T19:46:04.644-08:00Oh, that was my summary. In their words:
The comm...Oh, that was my summary. In their words:<br /><br /><i>The committee found that answers to some of the most pressing questions cannot be addressed with existing data and research methods, however well designed. For example, despite a large body of research, the committee found no credible evidence that the passage of right-to-carry laws decreases or increases violent crime, and there is almost no empirical evidence that the more than 80 prevention programs focused on gun-related violence have had any effect on children’s behavior, knowledge, attitudes, or beliefs about firearms.<br /><br />[…]<br /><br />In summary, the committee concludes that existing research studies and data include a wealth of descriptive information on homicide, suicide, and firearms, but, because of the limitations of existing data and methods, do not credibly demonstrate a causal relationship between the ownership of firearms and the causes or prevention of criminal violence or suicide.<br /><br />[…]<br /><br />The evidence to date does not adequately indicate either the sign or the magnitude of a causal link between the passage of right-to-carry laws and crime rates.</i><br /><br />In the interest of fairness, it should be noted that just because both the CDC's and NAS's extensive reviews failed to find evidence of a causal link between firearm availability/restrictions and crime/homicide/suicide rates does not mean that there is not one—but if there is a conclusive link, nobody has yet been able to find or demonstrate it.<br /><br />Unless such a thing occurs, it is accurate for me to say that gun control has not been shown to reduce gun crime rates, and unfortunately, it is inaccurate for you to claim that it has.Guavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568182455048577926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-43188287963366909262011-01-26T17:19:23.740-08:002011-01-26T17:19:23.740-08:00I've never made any secret of my lack of enthu...I've never made any secret of my lack of enthusiasm for the president of the Democrats, but he clearly took the smart course last night.<br><br>This country has a great many <b>important</b> problems it needs to work on, and screwing around with additional ineffectual infringements on that which <b>shall not be infringed</b> ain't gonna solve them.<br><br>Actually, in light of the <a href="http://www.cnbc.com/id/41278821" rel="nofollow">projected $1.5 <i>trillion</i> deficit</a> for the year, it's especially gratifying to see that the administration is <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704062604576106323076312398.html" rel="nofollow">looking at BATFE funding cuts</a>:<br><br><i>At the department's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, OMB had proposed, in a document drafted just before Christmas, a cut of 3.5% from what the agency is likely to spend this year, and a 12.7% cut from what the agency had said it needed. ATF officials therefore spent weeks deliberating whether to scale back Operation Gunrunner, part of the Obama administration's effort to attack Mexican drug cartels by cracking down on gunrunning along the southwest border.</i><br><br>Sic 'em, boys!Zorroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15192598462809799995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-18581669415481345862011-01-26T16:27:26.326-08:002011-01-26T16:27:26.326-08:00Hope this helps... in case Guav could not get it f...Hope this helps... in case Guav could not get it for you. Look for the bottom half for a free executive summary to decide if you think the $40 is worth it.<br /><br />http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=10881Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-70572023913473666832011-01-26T15:30:08.849-08:002011-01-26T15:30:08.849-08:00I am NOT a member of this group.
There are "g...I am NOT a member of this group.<br />There are "gun purchase" regulations in EVERY state.<br />To own a rifle bought through a dealer, you MUST be 18, fill out a Federal form 4473, and pass a Federal criminal background check.<br />To own a pistol bought throuh a dealer, you must be 21, fill out the 4473 and pass the same background check.<br />TO CARRY A PISTOL, you have to also (in most states) pass a FBI criminal back ground check, take a weapons safety course, and prove you know how to use the weapon safely.<br />UNFORTUNATLY, the "shooter" did ALL these things.<br />Also unfortunatly, the system failed.<br />He was showing signs of mental unstability long before he started shooting and the area police KNEW this.<br />BUT BECAUSE HE WAS NOT ADJUDICANTED (JUDGED) MENTALLY UNSOUND (as required by law and which is a disqualifier to purchase ANY weapon legally), he was able to purchase his weapon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-77972316880592825492011-01-26T14:47:58.290-08:002011-01-26T14:47:58.290-08:00Showing trends before and after gun control legisl...Showing trends before and after gun control legislation for specific areas or states is a reasonable analysis to make. I think this will need a separate post to address, though.Baldr Odinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11818934498607763309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-42038097262575967622011-01-26T14:46:07.400-08:002011-01-26T14:46:07.400-08:00Guav, regarding your last comment, is this *your* ...Guav, regarding your last comment, is this *your* take on their results or do you have a reference to the NAS interpretation of those papers?Baldr Odinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11818934498607763309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-89178128420191630912011-01-26T13:49:10.038-08:002011-01-26T13:49:10.038-08:00Oh, and a year after the CDC's review, the Nat...Oh, and a year after the CDC's review, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books and 43 government publications evaluating 80 gun-control measures. Researchers could not identify a single firearm regulation that reduced violent crime, suicide or accidents.Guavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568182455048577926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-68603837186327016192011-01-26T13:29:57.304-08:002011-01-26T13:29:57.304-08:00@Baldr,
Actually, I've seen you post links to...@Baldr,<br /><br />Actually, I've seen you post links to information that claims correlations between guns and crime, but nothing that shows an actual decrease in violent firearm-related crime <b>after</b> gun control is introduced. Do you have the links to any studies that show that?<br /><br />...Orygunner...Orygunnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829265216321634830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-22319727718694037992011-01-26T13:27:22.712-08:002011-01-26T13:27:22.712-08:00The "peer-reviewed publications in medical jo...The "peer-reviewed publications in medical journals, with statistically-significant correlations" you posted were in relation to whether or not owning a gun made you more or less likely to be killed by a firearm, not whether or not gun control laws were effective in lowering crime rates.<br /><br />There are states that have passed restrictive gun control laws. There are also states that have relaxed gun control laws. If gun control laws positively impacted crime rates, it should be fairly easy for the gun control lobby to show how crime significantly shrank when places like NY, Chicago and DC all but banned handguns, and to show how crime skyrocketed as other states allowed citizens to carry concealed weapons in public.<br /><br />To measure the impact of gun control laws, one must look at crime trends before and after the passing or easing of such laws and note the effects, if any. To my knowledge, there is no data whatsoever to suggest that gun availability/gun control is the primary driving factor behind crime rates one way or the other.Guavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568182455048577926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-56448387421980163352011-01-26T12:48:31.977-08:002011-01-26T12:48:31.977-08:00@ Orygunner: Well hello, neighbor. Given your ca...@ Orygunner: Well hello, neighbor. Given your call name, I figured you were an Oregonian. By "loose" association I mean that I have volunteered with and fundraised for organizations here, such as ShelterCare, United Way, CASA of Lane County, Willamette Family Inc., Womenspace, Eugene Mission, Looking Glass, and Birth-to-Three, among others, but not an official member or full volunteer. If you wish to volunteer, they're always a phone call away. Here is a good site, via United Way, where you can find opportunities to volunteer:<br />http://www.211lane.org/<br /><br />As for the studies, I've cited a lot on this blog, including peer-reviewed publications in medical journals, with statistically-significant correlations. If they don't meet your criteria after that, then I'd say you'll never be satisfied.Baldr Odinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11818934498607763309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-80305050483864259022011-01-26T12:27:49.437-08:002011-01-26T12:27:49.437-08:00I apologize if I have offended you, it's not m...I apologize if I have offended you, it's not my intent.<br /><br />But the CDC conducted a sweeping federal review of 51 published studies about the effectiveness of gun-control laws—including bans on specified firearms or ammunition, restrictions on firearm acquisition, waiting periods, registration and licensing of firearm owners, concealed weapon carry laws and combinations of firearms laws—and found insufficient evidence for the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws on violent outcomes. I know of no study that has established that gun control laws significantly reduce firearm violence. If you do, please post them.<br /><br />It is with that in mind that I say "Gun control is what you do instead of something." Something that works, that is. I'm not trying to smear you. I have no doubt that you genuinely desire to reduce firearm violence. But insisting on pushing for more of the legislation that has not been proven to be effective in the past seems irrational to me.Guavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16568182455048577926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-80722156735423632602011-01-26T11:52:16.822-08:002011-01-26T11:52:16.822-08:00@Baldr: What results?
All I have seen you suggest...@Baldr: <b>What results?</b><br /><br />All I have seen you suggest is loose correlations on a couple charts you posted here on your blog. Limited data showing correlation does not prove causation. Where's the proof?<br /><br />Where has ANY of the gun control laws you support ever been proven to reduce violent firearm-related crime?<br /><br />Now what exactly do you mean "loosely" associated with these local organizations that work to reduce crime in our area? Not sure what I would be able to do to help, but I might be interested in getting involved. (I do just live over here in Springfield).<br /><br />...Orygunner...Orygunnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829265216321634830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1696618898580620397.post-87877907044503506882011-01-26T11:46:06.737-08:002011-01-26T11:46:06.737-08:00Guav, as I just commented to Orygunner, the approa...Guav, as I just commented to Orygunner, the approach sounds sensible and successful. As the deputy chief said in the article, "We have to be open to different approaches." That doesn't mean abandoning legislative approaches, rather it means considering other approaches as well -- something I agree with very much. All of those I know with similar philosophies as mine are in agreement as well.<br /><br />Like I told Orygunner, I'm involved in similar approaches here. I'm not opposed to the HARD WORK you mention. And your comment about "gun control is what you do instead of something" is merely a smear.Baldr Odinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11818934498607763309noreply@blogger.com